Late Night Ramblings About H!P Coming West

Sunday, 30th December 2007 03:18

I've been reading quite a few posts on other blogs lately as to whether H!P, or specifically Morning Musume, could make it within the west. The majority of these posts looking at whether they could break America, being a UK fan I can't really comment as to whether they could or couldn't break America, but I can look at it in the sense of how a UK audience might react to them. The curious thing is I'm not entierly sure what would be an easier market to get into, both the UK and US are very similar but at the same time extremely different, you've only got to look at the amount of successful UK groups (within the UK) that are completely ignored by America. But it works the other way as well, as it's been an age since I last remember Country music appearing in our charts...although I'm not to sure how often it appears in the American charts, lol, I'm basing this whole opinion on the fact that I saw a performance by a country music group on the American version of Strictly Come Dancing (Dancing with the Stars as it's called over there) and if it's anything like the version we have over here the performers are always high selling popular artists. We are two similar countries and there's still this divide within the musical tastes, it seems quite a large step to take to think that we would welcome the J-Pop style of Morning Musume with welcome arms.
And don't forget that there's still the issue of language. I've said in previous posts how I feel that within the UK we are very narrow minded when it comes to foreign films and music, if it's not in English a lot of people will simply ignore it and brand it as rubbish, to quote a friend of mine "I think the English are a closed door when it comes to music by non-English speaking bands...as a nation, we're wankers when it comes to having any kind of interest in anything different". From a young age I've been a fan of Asian Cinema, starting with the obvious entry point for any young kid, Martial Arts films, with Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan providing great conversation in class when I really should have been working, as I got older Anime and Manga caught my eye; Akira and Ghost in the Shell, etc, spreading out into Hong Kong films like A Better Tomorrow (and all John Woo's non American films), A Chinese Ghost Story, Naked Killer and Mr Vampire to name a few, add to this a love of gaming, specifically 2d beat-em ups, and you can see how this would eventually lead me to J-Pop, not necessarily H!P but no doubt if I hadn't of discovered it when I did, it would have only been a matter of time. Having been into the films at such a young age, I've gotten used to the comments of others, friends and family on how odd my love of these 'rubbish subtitled films' are, these feelings and views are for the most part still applied by those who had them to begin with, to the music of H!P. I do however feel that although these views are still present they are thrown at you as often when compared to comments on subtitled films, people are more willing to sit down and spend 5 minutes listening to a couple of tracks of an album rather than spending that time watching a subtitled film, I think that as you don't necessarily have to understand the words within a song to appreciate it helps out quite a bit.

I think the biggest thing that could potentially scare people away from Morning Musume is the whole Idol thing. I say 'think', but that should be 'know'. Although music is a big part of Morning Musume, them being Idols plays a major part and it's something that hasn't really been seen over here before. Obviously we have groups of a simlar nature (which I'll go into in a minute) but nothing as extreme as Morning Musume, I could never imagine a group over here releasing anything like a PB or Alo!Hello DVD. As a country we're not totally unfamiliar with Idols, but we just don't call them by the same name, also there's none of this you can't date and other rules that apply, the more people they sleep around with, the more trouble they get in, the more times they come stumbling out of clubs drunk and wearing next to nothing the more we seem to like them. I think the closest we come to any kind of Idol over here are Page 3 glamour models (Leilani and Lucy Pinder being two of my all time favourites), they feature very heavily in newspapers and 'lad mags' and I would say that they are more similar to the like of Gravour Idols. The Queen of the Page 3 models would have to be Jordan (aka Katie Price), she started off working in The Sun newspaper and has pushed her career to cover almost everything a celebrity could do, acting, singing, chat show host and reality TV, I really don't know how her song never became our entry into the Eurovisioin song contest :S


There's also other factors to take into consideration when talking about Morning Musume (or in fact H!P as a whole) and that is the age range. It's very hard for people outside of the H!P fan base to look in and not think the classic question all of us I'm sure has been asked "How old is she!!". There can be no denying that some of the girls are young, with the likes of Aika, Linlin and Koharu within the group eyebrows will surely be raised and questions asked as to why these young girls are put on display in the outfits they wear when you consider the target audience. And of course this will no doubt be helped along with the media, who at any given opportunity love to exaggerate the truth, I wonder how long it would take before the papers wrote complete bollocks attempting to dirty their image, forget Friday magazine, the tabloids in the UK would love to find dirt on something whose image is supposed to be portrayed as clean and pure.

Right, tea break...Sorry for the long post, but I've still got a little left.

If Morning Musume were to consider coming our way a person that Tsunku should really have a long chat with is Simon Fuller, to quote Wikipedia 'He is a British entrepreneur and creator of the Idol series', looking through the acts and shows that he's created and worked with, it's hard not to think to yourself, did he create them or is he just ripping off aspects of H!P and repackaging them up for a western audience. First off there's the Spice Girls, a group of five girls selected from applicants from an advert in The Stage magazine, they were each given a unique personality which was pretty much force fed to the whole nation whether you liked it or not, 'Girl Power' was pretty much everywhere. Spice Girls are pretty much the UK equivalent of Morning Musume, when you look through their career and success, it's quite easy to compare. And with their recent reunion (a little after 10 years after their first single release) it's even easier to compare them with the recent Morning Musume and their recent 10th Anniversary. But that's just the start of the comparisons between Simon Fuller and H!P, next up is S Club 7.
Although the group consists of both male and female members there are similarities with them and Morning Musume, obviously there's the Pop style of music, but there's also the TV show that they had, although this was a scripted series, unlike Hello Morning or Haromoni, but it helped show off the characteristics of each member and build up their personalities. Another similarity is S Club 8, a younger unit formed primarily as a support group for S Club 7 when performing concerts, but later went on to release singles and albums. This again shows great similarity with the likes of Berryz and C-ute and suggests that perhaps, if marketed properly the likes of Morning Musume and Berryz, could in theory do well within the UK.
Next, is Pop Idol series, which I'm sure everybody must be familiar with. The premise of the show being that people would come to auditions and perform for the judges, out of these a selection would then on to perform and be voted off each week until one remained. The most successful winning group within the UK is Girls Aloud, they're still around today and produce some great pop music...they even have a song titled Love Machine.


I suppose it would also be useful to see how a foreign group entering into the UK market has done, one that really sticks out in my mind is a group that is similar in the way they are promoted, but for all different reasons. t.A.T.u a Russian group of two girls, at the time I think they were both 16, who were supposedly lesbians. The songs released weren't in Russian but in English, if they had been I doubt they would have had the success that they had. Their image was one that was the complete opposite of Morning Musume, blatant sexuality, it's a fact, guys like girl on girl action. It caused quite a lot of fuss and got the group a lot of publicity, which was helped by the fact that their releases were great. A high point (lol, well I liked it) being the video for All the Things She Said, school uniforms, rain and kissing. It's interesting how when I talk to people about Morning Musume, normally the question is always raised about the age of the girls and that you would have to be pervert to like them, but with t.A.T.u they generally see nothing wrong. Perhaps it's like the old 80's horror movies, it's what you don't show that really gets people thinking. Two girls in school uniforms kissing in the rain, people know what they're getting?


It also seems that every few years we get a boom with all things Japanese, you suddenly start seeing Manga and Anime appearing in shops, only for it die down and come back a few years later, at the moment Manga and Anime seems to be going from strength to strength, which can mean that if there was a time for Morning Musume to consider something like releasing music within the UK now would be the best time to do it. Although it would seem that all things Japanese are becoming more and more popular there's the fact that it's still not that popular. As far as I know currently there's only one magazine aimed at Japanese Music, DVDs and culture and that is Neo magazine, and although they feature Japanese music reviews and artists within it, I've never seen any mention of Morning Musume or anything H!P related, very odd.
I know quite a few people who are into Japan for one reason or another, fashion, anime, manga, gaming, etc, etc, but none of them are too keen on Japanese music, I also know a few people who are into their music and again they show little interest in it. It makes me wonder that if these people aren't interested then how can 'the average person' be interest?

So I guess what I'm trying to say (in a not so well put together way, sorry it's really late now and I'm trying my best to word and get my points out as best as possible) is that although I can see troubles with Morning Musume coming into a Western market, it's not impossible just highly unlikely. There's a lack of any real market for them over here, and although there groups have been around and still are around that share a great number of similarities with them, the potential for them to break into our countries holds a major risk factor which has the potential of alienating the fans back in Japan, which would be a major mistake.
I think the thing that worries me more than anything else, is that if they were to attempt to break into a UK or US market, it's not something that can be done easily or quickly, the songs would have be done in English to be a full success, all of this leading to the one thing I would never want to see happen to any unit within H!P and that's the westernisation of them, they are the daughters of Japan (or is that Asia now?) and that's the way it should stay, if they lose that then they lose what they are about.
Instead what I would really like UFA to start doing is to make more of an effort with us foreign fans, I'm not asking for releases in our countries, I'm more than happy to order off of the net, but with things like the Fan Club and performances in Hawaii, they should be open to people outside of Japan, all of us put in a great deal of effort into our fandom of H!P and we're a dedicated and devoted bunch, I can only see good things happening with an international Official Fan Club. Especially with things like their performances in Hawaii, it's a perfect opportunity to open it up to a more global community.

TAGS [ Hello!Project Morning Musume Stuff ]
Posted Sunday, 30th December 2007 03:18 | 4241 Reads

Comments

Comment by Bethany on Sunday, 30th December 2007 05:05
I thought of making a post on this too actually lmao.

But yeah, I agree. Theres a low low low low low chance of Morning Musume releasing a song in the US and letting it get anywhere near popular. I've let my friends see some PV's of them, and all they've said is either "You listen to kids music?", " how young are they?" "They don't even wear makeup."
If morning musume turned into some cute Japanese slut band and sang in English. They'd have a shot.
America is too baised on sexuality to have Momusu involved.


Comment by Shirow on Sunday, 30th December 2007 12:11
Personally I hope I never see the day that h!p try and crack the western market.
I dont think something like h!p could be homogenized for a western market for a number of reasons,
Demographic being the main issue, Japans core audience is males 18-50 (thats a rough estimate) but also they are very popular to japanese children.
I dont the UFA could ever achieve such a duality with a western market.
Also like you said ... Language ... theres hardly any tolerance within the UK for any other culture or language ... sure .. the UK is now considered 'multi-cultural' ... yet all the cultures are segregated into thier own communities.
The past few years theres seems to be a rise in Anime interest though .. my local waterstones now has an actual manga section, also hmv has an anime section ... 10 years ago I was lucky if I could pick up Akira on vhs.
Im also seeing alot of 'world cinema' sections popping up everywhere which is great because it opens peoples perspectives to other cultures.
The best that the UFA could achieve is a international fanclub, I would be happy to pay to be a member, but I doubt such a thing will ever happen.
To sum up my thoughts ... I want h!p to stay exclusive to Asia, I dont want them to change thier formula for such an ignorant market that would cast them aside after a few months.
Also ... just some random thoughts ... h!p would have to cut singles to about 3 minutes length .. to cater for western attention span.
I can also see the sun tabloid paper with the headline 'PAEDO POP'.
Rant over haha.
Also Paul I hope you take a ton of photos while in japan, I hope you take a photo just like the one of your friend stood outside the h!p store looking pissed off .. that would be gold :)


Comment by Dan on Sunday, 30th December 2007 14:01
Great post Paul, even if a bit rambly. And thanks for quoting me, haha.

One of my favourite bands are a dutch band called Blof; and they're essentially the same as all the other music I listen to, except they sing in Dutch rather than English - and therefore, they'll never get a listen over here.

It's a thing which won't change. I mean, even going on holiday; we, as English, expect everyone to speak our language. We're just not interested in other people's languages.

Even when Hollywood goes all foreign- the box office is always slightly disappointing. i.e., with the political film 'BABEL' - it didn't do as well as things like Blood Diamond and whatever else, because it had subtitles. Namely, I don't think "Pans Labyrinth" did great over here..


Comment by Craig on Sunday, 30th December 2007 21:52
I agree there would be a small chance if they were adopted by someone like the guy who used to push The Sex Pistols, maybe a Charles Saatchi type, Someone who can really PIMP bigtime.


Comment by ChrisRDO on Sunday, 30th December 2007 22:51
I have to go with the consensus here and concede that H!P would have very little chance of succeeding in the Western Market. First and foremost, the language barrier would be a major problem. The only groups I can think of who have attempted it, Puffy and Shonen Knife, sang in English. And their western success has been moderate at best. Second, the whole "idol" thing is completely foreign to most western music fans, and there is a lot more to H!P than singing. Western consumers would mostly miss out on the personalities of these girls. Then you have the usual reaction of people I share my love of H!P with. It's mostly bemused confusion..."You understand what they're saying?" or "How the heck did you get into them?" Even if they came just to perform, I'm not sure where they could draw a big enough crowd to make it worth their time and effort. I can't see it in New York, Los Angeles, or London.

In any case, I'm not sure I would even want to see it happen. For me, it would take away the mystique. However, I would love to see an international fan club...where do I sign up? Plus, I am excited about going to Japan to see them next month. It gives me a chance to experience a part of the world I've never seen. I just hope Ohta finds me a good ticket!


Comment by namika on Monday, 31st December 2007 00:25
I think Puffy, havent done soo badly in the western market, but its due to the whole reason that they didnt start of by branding their music, they started off by going on a de tour by doing cartoon theme tunes :-teen titans (on this front i just want to add that in some eips their songs appeared in japanese so language really isnt an issue) and then their own cartoon show, from there they've been able to, sell merchendise like toys and nintendo ds games, do an american tour, and gain a bigger fan base. If morning musume did something like this, then it be easier to get into the western market.

Question is would any one be willing to back them?


Comment by namida on Monday, 31st December 2007 01:36
Hey, Paul. Long time reader (more than a year), first time writer on your blog. With domestic consumption tapering off; the inability to make it big in Korea, Taiwan, and Hong Kong (I'm not saying there aren't any fans in these places); and the unlikelihood that MM would succeed in the West, it looks like the group is running out of markets. Is anyone afraid that UFA would shut down MM? Just look at the latest sales of "Mikan."

Help me out if you can. I'd ask MORNINGBERRYZ too, but I'm not a member of Vox. If he's reading this, I hope he can help too. The next MM single just got listed on CD Japan, and it appears that type A and B will both include DVD's, instead of type B including a photo book. I understand that the contents between the two DVD's are different. Does anyone know what's including in each (e.g., making of in one, alternative video on the other)? Instead of buying two copies, I want to choose the more favorable one. Looks like MM is trying to boost sales by appealing to the collectors. I wish the decision makers would think of a better way to sell more singles than to make me buy another copy of the CD.

When do you go to Japan?

Thanks for your help. Wish you well.


Comment by momo on Monday, 31st December 2007 02:32
about the new single being released in 3 months, we do not know at this time what the DVD's will contain. As the release date gets closer, we should know whats in the A and B version DVD's

seems weird they got rid of the photobook in the B version this time


Comment by kaidel on Monday, 31st December 2007 04:54
This was a really good ramblings XD
I'd like to H!P come to the US...
You made some interesting points. And tatu, I really can't stand them... but that's beside the point. If H!P were to come to the US, I'd want to audition. XD I want to audition now, but yeah I have no idea how to do that, and I live in the US.


Comment by ddrchik on Monday, 31st December 2007 06:37
i spit-tanked my soda when you mentioned tsunku talking with simon

also i'm from america and yes, dancing with the stars does feature a lot of popular artists..from what i've seen it's quite good!

and i loved S Club 7 while they were active..i still have 2 of their cds and am the only person i know who listened to them u.u

as for h.p. stuff coming here..there could be a lot of problems. all i know is that if they put a few shops over here i'd be happy.




Comment by John on Monday, 31st December 2007 08:40
Has morning musume really been doing bad in hong kong, taiwan, and korea? I know their fan base must not be that big seeing as how they just started in those places, but are they actually tanking? I have a question for anyone who can answer it, can someone clarify what the center role is? It's supposedly different from main vocals but i dont understand it at all. like i read yaguchi was the center in souda we're alive and koharu was the center in onna ni sachi are. Can someone please clarify? thanks


Comment by namida on Monday, 31st December 2007 09:03
A better question to ask, if you wish to consider MM's likelihood of suceed in the West, is whether UFA could make money off their clients. An existing fan defines success in terms of seeing a bigger following in their respective country, but to the agency, it only sees things in financial terms since it is a business. With that in mind, let's say UFA makes an attempt in the West. It would probably target pre-teen and teen females who had some exposure to Japanese pop culture. There will be some others who will be curious who are outside of this target group. What is the first thing they'll do? They'll go online to find out more. What do you think they'll find? Every PV, CD, and TV appearance uploaded by fans who existed before UFA's effort. Given their age group, do you think they will more likely download the free media or buy they with what limited cash flow they have? It seems that the well has been poisoned by some of MM's biggest fans from outside JP, and yet they claim to love MM with all of their hearts.

Consider this also: Simon Fuller is no fan of sugar pop and lousy voices, so don't expect him to cooperate with Tsunku. Furthermore, most American teens (females) prefer single acts with big voices over peep squeak girl bands.




Comment by namida on Monday, 31st December 2007 09:26
To John: It is possible to buy MM CDs in HKG, but only in a place like Mong Kok (Kowloon); and most CD stores in Taipei have a J-pop section. There are people who buy their music, but when you compare sales with Cantopop or Mandopop, MM is no match. It is a misconception that Hello! Project attempted to break the Chinese market this year with the introduction of Lin Lin, Jun Jun, and the Taiwan-hosted official site. Back in the late 90's, "First Time" was already distributed by BMG Taiwan Inc. (74321-73697-2)-- the first of many MM albums. Therefore, if you were to judge MM's appeal and success, look before 2007 and the Forward Music label. As J-pop releases, MM charts and can expect to do well in comparison to other J-pop releases; but in terms of total store sales, it remains a niche market. However, it is not possible to say that they aren't big because they haven't been around long enough.


Comment by BladeMaster on Monday, 31st December 2007 21:38
I agree with you, Namida, I was in Hong Kong and there were only 2 shops in Mong Kok that sell official MoMusu merchandises (right opposite to other each). I was there almost everyday to buy H!P stuff in a 2 week span.
There are other places in HK where there sell MM cd/dvds, but they're all parallel import or second-hand. It's a niche market indeed. People there didn't seem to appreciate H!P girls.


Comment by Kelly on Tuesday, 1st January 2008 02:13
You can get H!P cds/dvds in hk
and there're more of them as h!p now releases tawain versions of singles
i have one myself! ^^
and lots of people in hk and tawain people like morning and berryz as well
morning musume and berryz are the most popular


Comment by MorningBerryz on Tuesday, 1st January 2008 22:32
Namida I'm sorry that more information isn't yet available on Momusu's new single releases as everything's very vague at the moment. I'm most disheartened by the fact that they aren't including a photo booklet with this release and if that's the trend to follow then it's quite disappointing. I'm guessing it's a way to save money on the production as printing DVDs must be lower in cost than printing photo books. Still the booklets were really the best collectible I feel.

I think you've really nailed the answer to the thoughts of Momusu venturing into Western markets! It is a business and unfortunately it seems that the majority of fans outside of Japan choose to just download everything without buying much if any releases and they just continue to seed them until everyone has them for no cost. If one really would like to see them prosper then buying the actual releases is the way to support them. UFA makes no money off of downloaded music and pvs and I think it's only justified when it comes to t.v. programs, music shows, and other things of that nature which aren't sold by UFA. The Japanese music industry strives with including extras & first press items with their releases (while cds can, booklets can't be downloaded) and this entire concept wouldn't work in the U.S. as the days of buying an album to own the artwork,etc...seems to have passed by in this day and age where everything's available online and for the most part it's all free. The thinking in the U.S. just wouldn't suit Momusu and Japan's overall outlook on the music scene. Then of course there's the "idol" factor. Society outside of Japan for the most part wouldn't accept or agree with this type of thinking for obvious reasons. The fan base for H!P and other J-Pop will without doubt continue to grow in the U.S. and U.K, it's just that it's best keeping these groups and artists in Japan's society where we all have access to it, just not in an international sense. Living in Hawaii I'm always tempted to search for H!P members when they travel here and when "Alo-Hello!" releases come out it's always great to see familiar places (Nacchi even drove past my school!). The idea of allowing locals into their fan club events would be such a great thing!! I'd love to be able to attend a concert and then drive home afterwards instead of getting on a plane! Even if they charged an enormous amount for tickets and made us sit in the back I'd still attend for sure! But thinking about the idea further makes me realize why this still hasn't been done...even in Hawaii where we're so closely linked to Japan. These fan club events charge fan club members in Japan quite a substantial amount to fly over here and attend the festivities with their favorite members and to allow locals here in Hawaii access to these same events would in a way be unfair to those high paying fan club members from Japan. I think for this reason access outside of fan club members will probably remain a closed subject. Although I'd really love to attend!! :)


Comment by Radicalpatriot on Wednesday, 2nd January 2008 01:42
Excellent array of comments, and a superb anchor essay. Now consider these points:

-- For those who think that Morning Musume and related Asian groups would never be successful here, I have news for you: They already are. YesAsia's sales of Up-Front Works, Hachama and Zetima DVD titles -- mostly Hello Project and Morning Musume-related -- have more than doubled each year since 2004, when the junior MM groups Berryz Kobo and C-ute debuted. No, they can neither afford nor budget time and effort to launch a US tour (they are quite enough busy in Japan), but make no mistake, they are already a force to be reckoned with, being fueled by the proliferation of video Web sites which are equipped with the latest Asian digital technologies. US youth have also beaten Sony's silly game with making Asian DVDs unavailable in Region I (US) format, only Region 2, which can be played in Asian but not America. Solution? Download region-free DVD players in laptops from Canada, and buy region-free DVD players online from overseas sources. So much for the US music industiry's attempts to suppress Asian music sales in the States.

-- I have seen Puffy AmiYumi twice live in the US, the most recent opportunity Nov. 16, 2007, at The Key Club in Hollywood. Puffy went through the back door in the US market, securing an economic foothold through the "Hi! Hi! Puffy AmiYumi" cartoon series on cable TV. But since Sony owns Puffy, they permit this sensational music ensemble to tour only small clubs (to my enormous delight, since I have twice stood right in front of this dyanmic duo and their band colleagues). Puffy makes its cash through the cartoon-show royalties, and tours basically for the love of music and the amazing atmosphere created in smaller club venues by the Puffies. Puffy is the top club act in the world, in my view, but they are only allowed to fill arenas in Asia, not America.

But, just as in late 1963 when the Beatles broke through EMII's firewall only after a tidal wave of teen girls in the US "made it so," I forecast a mammoth breakthrough, and an inevitable huge concert in, say, the Staples Center in Los Angeles, by Morning Musume or maybe even the entire Hello Project company. The UK seems to already have a larger per-capita fan base for J-pop than does the US, so a Morning Musume world tour would likely include bot the UK and US in soma capacity.

Everyone is underestimating the market pull of these sensational girls, age notwithstanding. If Americans embrace U-15 Hannah Montana, they might as well let youngsters from other parts of the world have a crack at it.



Comment by namida on Wednesday, 2nd January 2008 02:31
To everyone:

I hope I didn’t offend anyone by saying that MM has lousy voices or by calling them a peep squeak girl band. These were said from the point of view of Simon or American teens. What do you think Simon would say if he were to hear Sayumi sing? I happen to be a fan of MM and enjoy their voices. Anyhow, sorry if I didn’t explain this earlier.

To BladeMaster and Kelly:

Thank you for your thoughts. The Taiwanese market is H!P/ MM’s (I will use H!P and MM interchangeably) best chance to find a foreign audience due to the proximity between the two countries, the familiarity and high level of acceptance that Taiwanese youths have of the Japanese pop culture, and a less brutal history when you compare it with Japan’s relationship with other former occupied countries. If you were to agree with me that success could only be determined by how much money can be made, then consider the following. 1) Not every fan is a customer. With streaming video web sites and the ripping and burning technology of CDs and DVDs, it is possible to own a part of MM media products without paying for it. Therefore, even if there are many fans in HKG and TW, it doesn’t necessarily mean that sales are good in these places. 2) To judge how popular MM is, consider this best practice of shelves space and sales, which I believe HKG and TW merchants follow. The percentage of shelves space devoted to a music genre should equal the percentage of sales by genre. So if sales are 20% J-pop, then a store should devote 20% of its shelves space to J-pop. Note that I am NOT talking about stores that specialize in handling Japanese imports, but your typical small music shop and big box retailers. You can see that in HKG and TW, J-pop is not wrestling shelves space from local releases. Within the J-pop section are your H!P selections, so literally, H!P is a niche. 3) Yes, there are Taiwanese versions of H!P CDs and DVDs, but the prices have been greatly reduced. The following is a hypothetical business relationship. I cannot be certain because I do not know the terms of the contract between Forward Music and Zetima, and what deals are involved in licensing, promotion, and distribution. Please take it casually. Pucchi Best 8 CD sold for 3,000 yen, so the equivalent is NT 870.786 (1 JYP = 0.290262 TWD). However, it retails for NT 350 (fan club members can get it for NT 332, but let’s disregard this). This is a markdown of 59.806%, which means the Taiwanese would have to buy 2.48796 copies in order to equal a single sale in Japan. Pucchi Best 8 DVD, however, retails for 3,800 yen and the equivalent is NT 1,102.996. This time, the Taiwanese pay NT 450 (FC pay NT 428). The markdown is 59.202%, which means the Japanese version is 2.45110 times more expensive than the Taiwanese one. Even after the reduced earnings per disc, Zetima must pay for local distribution and so forth, which cuts into profits. Therefore, sales must be heavy in Taiwan and other Chinese-language markets before you can see a significant contribution to Zetima’s earnings resulting from the sales of H!P products. Under these assumptions (yes, I admit that there are many, so don’t take what I say without being critical), I would say that seeking a foreign market for H!P products will have limited results. If HKG and TW have not proven to be monumentally successful, what hope does H!P have in cracking the West?

I will answer MorningBerryz in a few hours. Thank you.


Comment by namida on Wednesday, 2nd January 2008 02:48
So let’s just say H!P/ MM attempt to make inroads into the west. Once a certain level of popularity is achieved, no doubt that the “moral entrepreneurs” will appear, and they have much to exploit. Will they point to handshake events where you see older men queuing up? How about the shashinshu and accompanying DVDs? Will they note the male-centric fan base or show clips of the wotagei dancing? These things might be innocent to fellow H!P fans, but you can’t prevent the moral entrepreneurs from doing what they will. On the other hand, group such as High and Mighty Color might have been able to perform in ShikazeCon (Texas) in 2006 without an adverse reaction, but the group doesn’t project the same kinds of images as H!P idols. Thanks.


Comment by BladeMaster on Wednesday, 2nd January 2008 03:31
Honestly, there's not too much point for them to expand to the West. It's not like they're not generating enough revenue. CD sales may be down, but all merchandise are doing well. Concerts are always full. The only incentive is for the fans to see them in person without going to Japan or Hawaii.
Man, don't put so much pressure on the H!P girls. If Namie Amuro and all the big names won't expand to the West why should MoMusu? Let's say if they don't do well in the West, that would be all the Western media talk about, just bad-mouthing them undeservingly. No offence to people in US, but do you remember the most popular Asian singer in the States recently? It was William Hung from the American Idol. They buy his CDs so they can get a good laugh out of it. I'm an Asian myself and I couldn't bear it if they do that to my fav MoMusu girls.


Comment by John on Wednesday, 2nd January 2008 04:31
Every H!P release (including 10th a. single collection) since early fall has been added to the american itunes page for download. So in a sense they have already expanded west in a safe way, by making their music available for purchase cheaply.


Comment by Strawberrie on Wednesday, 2nd January 2008 05:49
Well BladeMaster, Amuro Namie has before express about wanting to perform in America and so has BoA. The only big act we can ever really see is Utada Hikaru since she is Japanese American. Hopefully soon Utada releases her second English album


Comment by BladeMaster on Wednesday, 2nd January 2008 06:00
Yea, let Namie and Boa go to US first and test the waters.


Comment by namida on Wednesday, 2nd January 2008 08:29
Hi, MorningBerryz: I check your blog everyday and have read it since the first post. Sorry that I’ve never made myself known to you since I didn’t want to join Vox. If I had known that others would be making you Christmas presents, I would have done the same since I always order custom-designed goods from Japan. I’ll get you something next Christmas. I wonder how fans that are only limited to buying one version of the CD single feel-- maybe a sense of incompleteness that could only be mend by buying the two versions?

I don’t understand fans that make H!P music and video available as free downloads on the Internet to strangers (the emphasis is on “strangers”). When I purchase a single, and album, or a DVD, I consider them gems. I wouldn’t want to cheapen it in any way, so it is natural that I protect the luster and prestige of the H!P name. If I bought a Louis Vuitton bag, it would be difficult to see someone be complimented for owning a fake one. What is worse is that since fake bags are prevalent, people are more likely to assume on first sight that it is a fake bag, and when you tell them it’s real, you’re told that one could be had for a fraction, although you could see the difference between a real and a fake bag. The proper response to owning H!P products is to promote its desirability, which is what your blog (MorningBerryz) does. For a so-called fan whose entire collection consists of free downloads to think he/ she can stand on equal footing to someone who bought the actual goods is a mockery.

TV sponsors lose if people don’t watch their advertising even though they supported the program, yet the target market that the sponsors of shows where H!P performers appear are largely domestic. In other words, whether you see the commercial or not, it is more likely that you cannot patronize the sponsor’s product anyhow. Therefore, a case could be made for sharing this type of media and I agree with you. The Japanese are familiar with the collectability of CDs, but Americans are not—only the collectability of DVDs is. Yes, the West has their followers of idols, but it is probably limited to the sales of teen magazines and posters, and not premium goods. Once again, the “moral entrepreneurs” would have a problem with heavy direct advertising to kids. Truly, the culture gap is a chasm. I believe much of H!P’s appeal outside of Japan is the fact that it is of Japanese origin. Internationalization of H!P could either lead to pride by the core fan base or isolation. To suit western sensibilities and western taste, would H!P have to alter their lyrics, style, costumes, persona, and group composition? Do it too much and the core fan base would abandon H!P, although you can make up the loss by gains in a foreign market. Would you, though, and dilute the Japanese roots that is the heart of the appeal?

As for Nacchi driving past your school, eh fo’ real brah, wot school you wen’ grad? You’re right about the FC events. It would be more favorable to you if it were billed to Japanese fans as a chance to, for example, spend the New Year holiday in Hawaii and celebrate with MM with song and fun, the way Anri fans and Hawaii locals can attend the same concert at the Neal Blaisdell Center.

In sum, my ideal is for H!P to continue to do well in the home market and I care very little about it expanding overseas, as I believe that it will neither contribute to the bottom line and instead expose the artists and groups to unnecessary risk to the image. How well H!P actually does in financial terms is unknown to me and I merely speculate. At most, I can say that it is no longer at the height of revenues generation and the peak of their popularity. What I don’t want to see is the curtailment of TV appearances and the releases of CDs and DVDs, and that true fans have a responsibilities in preventing such a scenario.


Comment by wahashimoto on Thursday, 3rd January 2008 15:13
Wow paul, it seems your blog has gained some popularity in my absence! So many people have an opinion on this topic. As for myself, I really wouldn't care if they entered the Western Music market, 'cause all it really do is let me bug my friends with it more. =]

Also, lots of other blogs I've been reading have had mixed reaction to this too.

On a completely unrelated note, have you seen the line-up for the 2008 H!P Winter Concert? Apparently, this is it:

http://aipop.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/hp-wonderful-hearts-2008-fuyu-concert-setlist/

Now, I don't understand Spanish, but from what I can make out, the alarming event happening between 11 and 12 is unnoficial.


Comment by namika on Thursday, 3rd January 2008 18:26
i concure that, the umm anouncement between song 11 and 12 is unofficial as the author is dubious on how they could of like planed it with in the set list, it looks over organised. if its true then its quite sad, not really a great start for 2008


Comment by paul.thomas on Thursday, 3rd January 2008 23:11
Well, the concert is tonight, so I guess I'll find out for certain about whether Kamei will be graduating, I really hope she isn't, it would be very sad if she does.
I'll post again in here a little later, I think my reply could be a little long and at the mo I need to start getting ready to head out.


Comment by Strawberrie on Friday, 4th January 2008 01:35
Eh, I never heard of that rumor. I'm sure if Eri was graduating the whole H!P community would known by now. Hopefully its just a rumor. The only musume members I can see graduating in the future are Niigaki, Takahashi, and Koharu.


Comment by MorningBerryz on Friday, 4th January 2008 08:48
Ah namida that is too kind of you!! I have to ask before anything else, do you live in Hawaii? I got a great kick out of your "pidgin!!" :D Nacchi passed by my Elementary school, Waikiki Elementary! I had to rewind the DVD to make sure and it's just after they pass the Zoo and Waikiki Shell. For me buying their releases has just become my wanting every version available since I've purchased every Momusu version since their debut single which I bought when it was originally released. May be an obsession or just pure fandom joy! :P But really the incentives are the different cover art and of course the extras included as it really sets the Japanese music industry apart from all others. Heheh reading some of my early entries must have been a wacky experience! :P Thank you for being there through my awkwardness as this is the first blog I've ever had. :)

We see totally eye to eye when it comes to the rampant downloading of H!P music and I agree 100% with everything you've expressed here. Your analogy is a perfect compliment to the point and the way it can appear to others who buy the actual releases. It's so far gone with the internet being a free for all and it sometimes surprises me that some of these largely visible sites aren't affected in some way.

Truly the U.S. market and many others for that matter just aren't suitable for Japan's musical scene. Starting with culture and just the way our societies are comprised is just too much to overcome when considering a H!P move to the West. And yes, the bottom line as you've stated so well is the business aspect. The underlying reason for any "business" is profit and it just isn't feasible with the way we differ as it's just too much of our roots and thinking at this point that are in the way of such a possibility. What may sound like a great idea on paper could possibly turn into a damaging move. Thank you for your wonderful insight. :)


Comment by MorningBerryz on Friday, 4th January 2008 08:52
Strawberrie, Amuro Namie has actually tested the American market already in a sense as she performed a great concert here in Hawaii a few years ago. While no concert goods were offered I do still have the program and ticket stub. I'll post them up soon.


Comment by paul.thomas on Tuesday, 15th January 2008 08:15
I've just been reading over at hello!cute that Buono!'s first single is going to be released in the US to help promote the anime series. Although I can't seem to find any information elsewhere, I'm not to sure how accurate it is, but it's got me thinking on a whole side of H!P heading west that I never thought of...would I actually but a western release?
It sounds silly I know, but the minute I read this article I started thinking to myself it's more than likely going to be a below par release when compared to the Japan versions. But even if the releases were the same, would I buy it or would I stick to CDJapan and YesAsia and get the Japanese versions? Having English writing on the CD case does little for me and probably makes me want the Japane version more. This opens a whole new side to the coming west thing, as even if they did, would I still buy these western releases?


Comment by Strawberrie on Wednesday, 16th January 2008 00:01
I have the magazine article where Jpop Music forums claims talk about US debut but when I read it all it really talks about what character the members like and they hope to do a tour in the future.


Comment by Daniel on Wednesday, 16th January 2008 03:09
Well, Kusumi Koharu and GAM have had Western digital releases on iTunes, so it's more than likely Buono will be found on iTunes as well. Was there something posted about a possible physical release in the US? I know how paul.thomas feels, a US version of a Jpop CD doesn't do much for me either. I can handle an overseas Asia version though because the Japanese writing is still there...and they're cheaper, hehe.


Comment by momo on Wednesday, 16th January 2008 04:45
as of now, there is no reliable source to be found that says a US release is coming soon. I wouldn't get your hopes up about it.

If there were a US release, it kind of wouldn't be the same as a Japanese one.


Comment by Elaine on Thursday, 31st January 2008 08:37
Kind of late here, but weren't S Club 8's early years their most successful? They were formed in 2001 and the members were born from 1987-1990, and the H!P Kids are far beyond that age. And while there was some controversy over American Juniors, the American Idol spinoff also created by Simon Fuller, which included several S Club covers, was highly rated during its only season, hitting 11 million viewers and 40% rating. So the pedo angle isn't there so much, from what I can tell. Of course, that's only if the market never finds out about their PBs, or some of the costumes. But pure age alone? I don't see the outrage.

Really, I think the biggest problem now is that bubblegum pop as a music genre is no longer popular in the Western music market. Happylolzrainbowuplifting! is not in, but rather angrier songs with a cynical attitude are preferred. Even mourning heartbreak is reserved for album ballads. S Club 8's hit first single One Step Closer really reminded me of ZYX Fly High in style, but S Club 8, now revamped iDream, has all but tanked on their recent releases. Children in elementary schools are singing songs from the Hip Hop Soulja Boy, and in all likelihood would laugh at Mikan and lump it in with Barney as childish and undesireable for a cool image. Tokaikko, on the other hand...

As for Buono!, they will be associated with anime, making any US release only appealing to the anime fans, which most normal people usually scoff at. H!P may gain some new fans within the anime demographic, but it won't help and may even damage their image for the mainstream market.

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